Crossett Eagles vs. Hamburg Lions

[Mr. C]

Hey guys, what do you think will be the outcome of the Eagles/Lions game in the '06-'07 football season? Some predictions would be cool.

Also, what positions do you think we are better than they are at? Which ones are they better than us at?

Thanks guys

[heathwaldrop]

GREAT post for discussion.

I think that it's really early to make solid predictions, and I don't yet know enough about who is going to be playing where to give a position-by-position analysis. About all I've seen of either team since the fall has been seven-on-seven play.

I do think that Crossett holds a pretty substantial raw talent, athletic and speed advantage. Quarterbacks seem to be about even. Eagles may have a slight edge on the lines, although there isn't a wealth of experience there for either team so that's a tough call.

One HUGE advantage that Hamburg has is playing with in the same offensive system for years and years. I'm not certain of what Crossett's offense is going to be. Last year was a radical departure from anything that the Eagles have done before, and they have flirted around with different systems every off-season except in 2003. That was the year that they went 12-1.

Also this game will be played at Campbel Field, which is a slight factor.

[Mr. C]

Also, I'd like to add that I personally think that Hamburg holds the definite advantage on the offensive and defensive lines. They seem to have a lot of bigger people in their '07 class, and Crossett seems to have unusually few big people for the line in this years senior class. Would you agree with that, or do any of you see it a different way?

Also, I'll add that I believe Turner is a better QB than Bergeron, if that's who Hamburg will use. From what I've heard and what little I've seen, it seems like Turner works much harder during practice, and the one time I watched Bergeron play (vs. Lakeside I believe), he just didn't seem like he cared what happened...then again, they had a pretty substantial lead also. Any criticism or anything like that is welcome, lol

[heathwaldrop]

Hamburg may have an advantage on the lines, but I don't think it will be because of size. Might be because of experience. Possibly even depth. Crossett's going to have some size up front. Jeffrey Doss is returning. C.C. Kilcrease is at center. Jarome Williams likely will see PT at d-end. There are some others...Allen Brooks, the Gulledge kid. Eagles have some beef there...in fact probably more than in the last two seasons.

The reason why I said toss-up between the two quarterbacks is because Bergeron's had so much more time in his system. He didn't get the live PT that Turner got last year, but I'm not even sure that Turner's going to be running the same offense. I think Turner obviously has an athletic advantage, but I liked what I saw out of Bergeron in seven-on-seven play. And a lot of what Hamburg does in seven-on-seven will be seen this fall, whereas the playbook that Turner uses this fall could be different.

Also, as we've seen played out the last couple of years, O-line play can make a good quarterback look bad or an average quarterback look great. Good line play is soooooo crucial.

I've correctly picked the winning team in this game every year since I've been here, but I'm not quite ready to make a guess on this one yet.

[Mr. C]

Well I'm ready to hear some predictions from you as soon as possible, lol. So you correctly predicted Crossett's loss last year? Do you watch Hamburg practice and stuff too?

Oh, and does anyone know enough about the two teams to compare the recievers and running backs? Who will be the running backs for Crossett this year?

[heathwaldrop]

thatoneguy said:

Well I'm ready to hear some predictions from you as soon as possible, lol. So you correctly predicted Crossett's loss last year? Do you watch Hamburg practice and stuff too?

Yes, I correctly predicted Crossett losses the last two years, as a couple or three people on the board can vouch for. Unfortunately the Crossett public goes ballistic if I don't predict Crossett to go 14-0 and win the state title every single year, so most of the time I have to keep my forecasting somewhat private. I think that I correctly guessed Crossett's final record last year, although I had predicted a win in the Monticello game and that ended up a loss, while I had predicted a loss in one of the other games (can't remember which) that ended up a win.

I do watch Hamburg's practices although I don't get to go over there nearly as often as I'd like to. I think last year I got over there about five times during the preseason, and I saw the Lions play Star City, Warren, Lakeside and Crossett during the regular season. I think that I had the Lions beating Monticello but they lost, and I know that I picked them to lose to Atkins when they won.

Oh, and does anyone know enough about the two teams to compare the recievers and running backs? Who will be the running backs for Crossett this year?

Still unsure of the Crossett offense but I'd expect to see a lot of Bull Tate (a sophomore, moved up to high school for the last two games of last year...had fantastic junior-high career...pure fullback with a very bright future). Tate is better at this same stage than Ray Charles Tucker was. He's faster but every bit as strong, and has better instincts. A lot of people also are clamoring to see Terrell Bryant (a junior), who was the primary weapon at tailback two years ago and led the junior-high team to a conference title. Bryant had the best combination of lateral quickness, open-field speed and vision that I've ever seen in a junior-high running back, but he was moved to wide receiver last year and basically was a non-factor. You also might see some of LaCario Paskel and Randy Williams, both undersized scatback types, although Paskel has proven to be very dangerous because he's so quick.

This is without a doubt the best stable of running backs that the Eagles have had since 2002, and these guys still are young.

You'll probably have to help us on Hamburg's backs. I understand that Chris Diggs has a little brother who probably will play some at that position. I haven't even had a chance to review what "Hooten's Arkansas Football" has to say about the Lions (not that I trust the info anyway).

In watching the Lions play seven on seven, I saw Phillip Brock, Nick Kelley and Lakendrick Ray being used a lot in the passing game. Don't know if these guys are going to be the go-to players this fall or not. Ray and Kelley both are good-sized kids (Ray particularly has a tight-end's body). Brock is a thinner, quicker type. Crossett used a lot of Kyle Cockerham (built a lot like Kelley is), and if the Eagles stay in that Spread scheme don't be surprised to see Rod Brown used out wide. His speed has increased tremendously since last year.

I've got to do some more research though...just haven't had time yet...

[Mr. C]

Wow, sounds kinda like we have more running backs than we do wide recievers. If that's true, I don't understand why we would run a passing-style offense. It seems like it would make more sense to me to keep two running backs in the backfield most of the time. Then again, I'm far from being a coach of any kind. Would it make any sense to you for Crossett to run a passing offense with no more recievers than the ones you named plus one or two? Do you think they will line T. Bryant up at reciever a lot this year? It seems like we have plenty of talent in the backfield, and not as much at wide out.

[Eddie Goodson]

thatoneguy said:

Wow, sounds kinda like we have more running backs than we do wide recievers. If that's true, I don't understand why we would run a passing-style offense. It seems like it would make more sense to me to keep two running backs in the backfield most of the time. Then again, I'm far from being a coach of any kind. Would it make any sense to you for Crossett to run a passing offense with no more recievers than the ones you named plus one or two? Do you think they will line T. Bryant up at reciever a lot this year? It seems like we have plenty of talent in the backfield, and not as much at wide out.

You can run just as easily out of the spread as you can from other formations. In some ways it opens up the run. There'll be plenty of receivers. I'm going on record now. Rod Brown will be just as highly recruited next year as Jeremy Evans was this year. Rod will play football on Saturdays.

[heathwaldrop]

thatoneguy said:

Wow, sounds kinda like we have more running backs than we do wide recievers. If that's true, I don't understand why we would run a passing-style offense. It seems like it would make more sense to me to keep two running backs in the backfield most of the time. Then again, I'm far from being a coach of any kind. Would it make any sense to you for Crossett to run a passing offense with no more recievers than the ones you named plus one or two? Do you think they will line T. Bryant up at reciever a lot this year? It seems like we have plenty of talent in the backfield, and not as much at wide out.

I'm with you. I'd like to see them run the I with Tate at fullback and Bryant at tailback. You've also got the flexibility to throw the ball out of that offense. Bryant is about as pure an I back as you'll ever find. With the kind of instincts that he has he'd be incredible in Hamburg's offense. I'm a big fan of I-formation football.

The blocking schemes are different for the I, though, so I don't expect that we're going to see that.

I still don't know for a fact that we're going to see the Spread. Coach T told me back in probably March that he was going to stick with that offense, but I never saw the team practice in the spring so I don't know if he stuck with the idea. And even if he did in the spring, he's been known to change offenses. The Spread didn't become this team's offense last year until probably three weeks into fall practices.

What he told me in March was that the idea is to stick with the Spread but run out of it 60 percent of the time. He's also got a lot of faith in Gvona Turner's abilities at quarterback. Maybe we could see something like the Shotgun formation with split backs. It's just too early to tell. I won't be convinced of what the Eagles are going to do until the first of October, after the first conference game is history.

Also, Bryant told me that he played running back throughout the spring so my guess is that he's going to be a running back in the fall, although if they're in the Spread they're going to have to come up with some creative ways to get it to him. He didn't get PT as an RB in the Spread last year because he doesn't have the size or strength to be reliable as a pass-protector. But he needs a LOT of touches for this team to be as successful as it can be.

[Mr. C]

What about the defenses? Do you know enough to make a guess about the best defensive team, position-by-position? I know both will probably play close to the same number of people both ways, because last year our teams were only separated in numbers by one or two people.

I may need to let this thread take a break for a while after a reply here, then one of you guys (Eddie or Heath) can post predictions and such here when the time comes that you're confident in your predictions.

[heathwaldrop]

I can tell you that right now I'm leaning pretty heavily toward Crossett because of the distinct athletic advantage.

I did a little research this week (although not nearly enough) and I think you may be right that Hamburg will have an edge on the lines, although I would expect it to be slight (mostly on defense) and based on experience more than size. Looks like size might be somewhat of a stalemate.

Hamburg is going to have the defensive advantage, at least in terms of experience. Line will be very good (probably the strongest element of the defense), linebackers solid, defensive backfield fair. Peyton Guin (one of the best players in the county at any position), Santario Brown, Paul Sellers and Anthony Gaines all are due to return. Courtney Rachal was an absolute monster as a sophomore; he had J.C. Ross on his back all night long two years ago. It looks like he's going to be back but I don't know that it will be on the defensive line this time around. Hooten's said that Greg Johnson said that he'll be a tailback. That's hard for me to fathom in Greg's I offense, because Rachal is about 250 pounds.

Crossett is going to have talent but not nearly that much returning experience. A number of the players who likely will start this fall saw PT last year but not a lot started last year. I would expect to see Rod Brown back at linebacker and after that, no clue. They've lost two three-year starters off of the defensive line and two two-year starters (and the team's top tacklers) out of the linebacker corps. Plus the No. 1 guy off of the bench and most of the defensive backfield. Drew Williams played quite a bit at linebacker as a sophomore; I expect that he will start. Lacario Paskel started at corner in the last handful of games last year and he may go back there (though his height leaves you vulnerable to a team with a decent-sized wideout). The rest are going to be very green--Tyler Huntsman, Pierce Williams, Jarome Williams, Bull Tate, Dominic Lincoln. Lots of sophomores and untested juniors.

Crossett's advantage in this game is going to have to come offensively. Use that speed to find the goal line often. A high-scoring game will benefit the Eagles.

[Eddie Goodson]

There's too many question marks right now for me to make an educated guess. But my heart says Crossett is going to whomp'em and whomp'em good. After all it's Hamburg, I'm supposed to think that. As for reality, we'll see.

[heathwaldrop]

See I don't have that nasty little "heart" element to get in the way of my prognostications.

Plus I have almost as many Hamburg people who will jump down my throat as Crossett ones. I've got to play things down the middle regardless.

[Eddie Goodson]

heathwaldrop said:

See I don't have that nasty little "heart" element to get in the way of my prognostications.

Plus I have almost as many Hamburg people who will jump down my throat as Crossett ones. I've got to play things down the middle regardless.

Yea, you've got to be "unbiased". You may be the only unbiased media person in America. ;D

[Mr. C]

I bet it's pretty stressful making predictions to this game in your position Heath, because no matter who you think will win, you'll have people from one town or the other complaining and telling you that you're wrong, lol. Glad I have the luxury of being biased ;D

[Mr. C]

Me too, I can't wait. The only thing that I don't like about it is that Crossett doesn't seem to care as much about the game as Hamburg does, I guess because they're a smaller school. They go out in the parking lot on that Friday and write things to the affect of 'go lions' and 'beat the eagles' etc. on everyones' cars in their schools parking lot, and they have a big pep rally. We didn't even have a pep rally for that game this year. It'd be nice if we could get the new principal to try to get the students more into the athletics at our school, you know? And we DEFINITELY need to have a pep rally that day, even though it's an away game I think. In my opinion, that game should be a pep rally every year, no matter what.

[heathwaldrop]

thatoneguy said:

Me too, I can't wait. The only thing that I don't like about it is that Crossett doesn't seem to care as much about the game as Hamburg does, I guess because they're a smaller school.

I would expect to see some change in that this year. Rather than because it's a smaller school, I believe that it has something to do with which team has won more recently. My first few years here, Hamburg had won five of the previous six meetings in the Ashley Bowl and didnt' really give a hoot (or a roar, as the case may be) about Crossett. Bigger fish to fry. In 1997 the Lions went 13-1 and made it to the state title game. Two of the victories were over Crossett.

But all that the Crossett fans and players talked about was beating Hamburg, for my first three years here. I don't think I heard a Hamburg player mention Crossett a single time over the same frame.

When coach Ingram came in, one of the questions posed to him most often was "Can you beat Hamburg?" Of course he did in his first season, lost in his second and then rolled off three victories in a row. So that put the Eagles with four victories in five years. So then the Hamburg game kind of became a ho-hum deal for CHS.

But it had become huge in Hamburg. When the Lions broke the losing streak against Crossett two years ago, it was just this side of pandemonium. Of course in the preseason, Joseph Morton had immortalized himself by telling me (in a story that ran in Gridiron 2004) that the state would realize that the Lions were for real WHEN they beat Crossett--in other words he guaranteed that they would do it that fall. After they did win, I ran a quote from a kid in the HHS band that I overheard at the horn, something like "I can't believe that we actually won a game...and we NEVER beat Crossett!" They sold T-shirts printed with the final score and at homecoming for the next two years, when they do that deal where the escorts are announced and they read off the "favorite memories," almost to a man (and girl), every one of them said that beating Crossett was their favorite memory.

You have to understand though the state of the Lion football program at that time. I think Hamburg had won only three games in two years up until that point. It was a huge victory for the sake of motivation if nothing else.

Now, though...Hamburg has reeled off two in a row, and I think the Lions kind of expect to win the game. I'm betting there won't be any T-shirts sold over there this year, if you know what I mean. And now in Crossett the game carries much more significance after those two straight losses and consecutive lackluster seasons. I'd expect to see more interest in that game from the Crossett side this year.

[Mr. C]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, excellent explanation Heath. Hopefully our crowd will get more into the game this year than they did last year too, even though it's an away game. Actually, the fact that it's an away game probably won't affect how loud our crowd is, because most of the people who really cheer go to every game/most games anyway, including the away games. I can't wait until this game. Do you think there's any chance someone could convince the new principal to let CHS have a pep rally for that game? After going to pep rally's all through high school, there's no doubt in my mind that it gets the players VERY pumped up for the games.

[heathwaldrop]

Mr. Gragg is pretty sports-conscious (I think that he used to do some coaching himself, and I know that he used to officiate). I would expect that something could be done if the student council or some other student organization went to him about it.

There always has been a pep rally at First National Bank (as long as I've been here) that is supposed to be for both the students and the public, but there normally aren't many students who attend. Basically the players, the cheerleaders, the Eaglettes and a few members of the band are it. Very very few random students.

[Mr. C]

Yeah, I went to a pep rally at the bank one time, and I felt like I was the only person there. Do you think that helps pump up the players as much as a school pep rally with all the students cheering though?