FINAL Standings (6-8-06)

[mdr]

I would like to clarify a few things. First I now regret having listed the names of any player in my posts. I did not know that children read the posts on this board. This may sound naive but I can not understand why anyone would let a 9 or 10 yr. old have access to the internet or a cite like this so please forgive me in that regard. I will refrain from posting any additional names. I only meant to praise those I saw that were playing well, I did not mean to slight any that were not named. I assumed that having twice stated that the most important games were left and clearly not having listed 12 all stars on each team and stating I could not form any definate opinions until I saw the stats that I was not intentionally declaring that any child should not or could not make it. If any were offended by this I am truly sorry, no harm was intended.

Second, I take issue with Outlaw's comment that he feared some might read this and quit the league due to fear that they would not make allstars. I appreciate his concern for the kids and for that reason I will refrain from posting further names, but his comment opened a door to a subject that I have struggled with for a long time. WHY DO WE PLAY THIS GAME. In my opinion (which is worth what you paid to get it) Allstars is a by product of league play. IT IS NOT WHY KIDS SHOULD PLAY THE GAME. Children should play to have fun and be with their friends. Coaches should coach to help teach, motivate and mold children to learn that through hard work, team support and positive never give up attitudes they can accomplish many things. Children do not learn character from their success, they learn it from failure and getting up and trying again, and again and again until at last they suceed and are stronger for this. Allstars is NOT WHY WE PLAY THE GAME and any child that would become discouraged and quit because he or she does not think they will be an allstar has had the wrong values instilled in them. Any child that becomes that distraught over this needs to have his or her parents sit down with them and they need a long talk. Having been through a season where my child made allstars and one where he didn't I am very familiar with the consequences of both results. I don't deny that allstars plays an important role in todays league play, but I contend it is not why we play. (Being fair, that's not what Randall said either, HE DID NOT SAY WE PLAY THE GAME TO BE AN ALLSTAR.... but his comment allows me to explore why kids do quit a subject that I have been pondering for some time.)

SOOOOooooo, WHY DO SO MANY KIDS QUIT BETWEEN AGE 10 and 11, why do they become discouraged?? I submit to you the reason they quit is because of the way we run the 9 and 10 year old league. 1/4 of the kids on my team will only get to bat one time in many games. They will only set foot on a ball field for one inning, two at most in any game. WHY, because I am carrying 12 kids and I HAVE TO GET EVERYONE IN. The time frame on our games has gotten shorter but the kids are required to get into the ball game or my team faces a forfeit. THIS DISCOURAGES A HECK OF A LOT MORE KIDS THAN ANY POST EVER WRITTEN ON THIS LIST. PROOF::::: There are 6 teams in the 9 and 10's, that was a total of 72 kids signed up to play. There are 6 teams in the 7 and 8's, The 11 and 12's barely made 4 teams. As a coach I have dealt with this the best way I could, often benching many of my starters, (including my own son) to try to get more playing time for the other kids. Still it just isn't enough. We have to balance the teams goal of winning with the duty to get everyone in the game. The results are less than satisfying as a coach.

I have given you a problem, I will offer a solution: Let all 12 bat, have free substitution so that no kid sets for more than one inning, keep them in the ball game and off the bench. Why don't we do this now? Anyone care to touch this one? Another possible solution is to redraft every year to avoid team stacking. Since my team will be pretty well stacked next year this one hits close to home but I can't deny it would levelize the field and I would not oppose it for the good of the league and all the kids.

Third my question about attitude in ball players was not directed at ball players who become upset because they strike out, who sling their hat or bat in anger at themselves or sit in the dugout crying. It was not even directed at those who can not seem to shake off a bad play and who carry it on their shoulders for extended periods after the play is over. Read my post, I directed that question to a specific pattern of behavior. Verbally abusive and insulting comments directed to a teammate or anyone else for that matter. It's not the same thing. A child that becomes emotionally upset at himself and vents by physically lashing out with a bat or a helmet at the ground, crying, or sulking is understandable but not acceptable response. It is a pity party that coaches MUST ADDRESS IMMEDIATELY. You chew his rear out, if this doesn't work you refuse to start him in the next game or bench him till he comes around. After one or two episodes he gets the idea and the problem is solved. The player is stronger for this and the team benefits. This type of behavior is easily corrected but you don't wait till he is 12. Pity parties indicate the player is abosrbed with his own play and is not focused on his duty to his team. The appropriate response to a strike out is for a player to tell his teammates "sorry guys, I'll do better next time". (You may think I'm joking. I'm not). Its called being responsible for your actions and you teach it to them NOW. The team in turn should rally around the player and tell him not to worry about it, you'll get him next time. (This would be TEAM SUPPORT, i.e. we are all in this together. Remember as coaches IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT WINNING BALLGAMES. It is also about instilling good ethics, hard work, sportsmanship and competetion in our kids. If you do this as a coach you will not have to worry about winning ball games, the games will take care of themselves. In our practices we coach kids to say "I'm sorry" when they blow a play and "thank you" when another player pulls down a wild throw or helps them make the play. We coach our kids to be "responsible" and "courteous" and "team players". They don't usually come that way, you teach them.

Now does that mean they always do it, heavens no. Half the time they don't understand a thing I am saying to them. Do I have all the answers, not hardly. What I have are questions and concerns and ideas and I will readily confess I know less about baseball than Outlaw which probably explains why he has beaten me twice. Look out next time Randall, it isn't all about winning, but it does help.

Now fire away.

M.D. Ray
ps. I put my name at the bottom of my post because if I wasn't willing to stand behind what I say, I wouldn't say it at all. I understand not everyone feels that way.

[jenkins]

you touched on some good points there michael.........................Tracy

[Outlaw85]

I said yesterday i was through with this thread but I feel i need to say one last thing. My comments yesterday were not directed at any one person but to the subject as a whole. I did not know ,myself, until yesterday that some of the kids were reading this. While nothing bad was said about any player, the fact that some were left off lead me to believe trouble was on the horizen.

I have been coaching for 6 years and on at least one occasion seen a child removed from a team at a crucial piont and cost that team the league title. All because the parent found out the child did not make all star. I didn't want that to happen to anyone with such crucial games remaining. although my team has clinched first there is battle going for second. One that most likely will come down to the final night of play.

i saw something yesterday that reminded me of myself 20 some odd years ago. With a steady rain falling 3 boys in the back yard working, on their own , on their pitching. Two of these boys play for me. I saw dedication and love for the game in these boys. Come down my street and you will most likely see 4 boys playing some sort of ball on any given day. That is what baseball is about!!!

[bazeballmom3]

My intentions when this all started was not to hurt any childs feelings, it was to find out what people were thinking I shouldn't have put names but i did not realize that children of this age came on here and read this stuff, I myself do not let my 10 yr old read this. These are peoples personal opinions and everybodys are different. Let me just say this to all children in our league you are all all stars for getting out there and giving your 110% to the grand game of baseball.

[ballfan]

Anyone else see the RedSoX/Tiger Game this evening ? Really great Game. I thought the Sox were going to rally in the 6th but the Tigers really played very solid ball IMO... Austin pitched a good game and they got some great plays from there new third baseman tonight #2 Ford... I saw him make a really heads up throw home that saved a run and a couple other throws + a tag for outs. I thought Logan at BC and 1st & 2nd baseman on the Tigers played well with the first baseman getting a couple of really good hits....On the Sox I thought the Starting Pitcher Harrington did a good job and so did the next 2 Babb and Taylor and there BC was solid all evening as well and the boy in right field made a really great catch. There were good plays made on both sides all evening IMO by lots of players some I know I did not mention .

Overall the Tigers should feel good they beat the #1 team and the Sox should feel no shame, the tigers played well tonight and the Sox may have been a little flat out of the box... Good hard playing on both sides though and a very entertaining game to watch.

Congrads Tigers !

[mdr]

I saw part of that game and the Tigers pitcher was definately on his game last night. He would have given any team in the league fits. The Red Sox never gave up and were trying a rally but it came to late in the game. I enjoyed the part of the game that I was able to see but frankly this does not bode well for my club. You see, I play both of these teams next week. The Tigers are going to be high off their last victory and that kind of confidence makes a team hard to beat. The Red Sox are going to be madder than hornets and doubly committed to not losing another ball game. They are good and they know it and they are not going to be happy about ruining a perfect season.

Thanks Fife, I really appreciate this.

The battle for second place is definately on and the three best teams in the league have to face each other one last time apiece. I predict that one of the best games of the season is yet to be played and possibly two of the best. Rays v. Tigers at 5:30 on Monday and Rays v. Red Sox at 7:00 on Thursday. Tigers and Rays are currently tied for 2nd. Their record between themselves is 1 and 1. Rays have lost to the Red Sox twice, both times by 2 points in the 5th inning. Outlaw described these games as Barnburners and they were, both times.

If you have the time I would encourage you to make it to these games if you can. These teams have shown steady improvement over the season so they should all be at their best as the season comes to a close and if these three teams play up to their potential then when they lock horns it will be to good to miss.

Michael D. Ray,
Manager for the Rays.

[ballfan]

I agree some good games this week if both clubs show up ready to play.

The Tigers have found some help on Defense from a couple of 9's and both are starting to hit, and that maybe the deciding factor weather the 9's of the tigers can hit Monday.

It also could be a let down game for the tigers after the emotional high of last week. The question is can they rise again to face another tough club ? It should be a good one or a blow out LOL.

Sox vs Rays they should charge admission to that game !!!


Predicting how a 9-10 or 11-12 year old will play is like predicting the weather in Crossett you just never know what's going to happen.

To reply to a previous post about what to do to help the league. I agree having all the teams redraft each year may be a good Idea. It would maybe give more kids chances to play more positions and have more time on the field. It would also make a coach really have to try players early on that are new to them instead of going into the season with his infield set or pitching staff set. I like that Idea and I think Hamburg does this already and I have heard several parents say they are considering moving there kids over to Hamburg for this and various other reasons.


Good luck to all the Kids and teams this week and may the games be close and the bats warm. I like to see high scoring games LOL..

[bruth]

mdr said:

Second, I take issue with Outlaw's comment that he feared some might read this and quit the league due to fear that they would not make allstars. I appreciate his concern for the kids and for that reason I will refrain from posting further names, but his comment opened a door to a subject that I have struggled with for a long time. WHY DO WE PLAY THIS GAME. In my opinion (which is worth what you paid to get it) Allstars is a by product of league play. IT IS NOT WHY KIDS SHOULD PLAY THE GAME. Children should play to have fun and be with their friends. Coaches should coach to help teach, motivate and mold children to learn that through hard work, team support and positive never give up attitudes they can accomplish many things. Children do not learn character from their success, they learn it from failure and getting up and trying again, and again and again until at last they suceed and are stronger for this. Allstars is NOT WHY WE PLAY THE GAME and any child that would become discouraged and quit because he or she does not think they will be an allstar has had the wrong values instilled in them. Any child that becomes that distraught over this needs to have his or her parents sit down with them and they need a long talk. Having been through a season where my child made allstars and one where he didn't I am very familiar with the consequences of both results. I don't deny that allstars plays an important role in todays league play, but I contend it is not why we play. (Being fair, that's not what Randall said either, HE DID NOT SAY WE PLAY THE GAME TO BE AN ALLSTAR.... but his comment allows me to explore why kids do quit a subject that I have been pondering for some time.)

SOOOOooooo, WHY DO SO MANY KIDS QUIT BETWEEN AGE 10 and 11, why do they become discouraged?? I submit to you the reason they quit is because of the way we run the 9 and 10 year old league. 1/4 of the kids on my team will only get to bat one time in many games. They will only set foot on a ball field for one inning, two at most in any game. WHY, because I am carrying 12 kids and I HAVE TO GET EVERYONE IN. The time frame on our games has gotten shorter but the kids are required to get into the ball game or my team faces a forfeit. THIS DISCOURAGES A HECK OF A LOT MORE KIDS THAN ANY POST EVER WRITTEN ON THIS LIST. PROOF::::: There are 6 teams in the 9 and 10's, that was a total of 72 kids signed up to play. There are 6 teams in the 7 and 8's, The 11 and 12's barely made 4 teams. As a coach I have dealt with this the best way I could, often benching many of my starters, (including my own son) to try to get more playing time for the other kids. Still it just isn't enough. We have to balance the teams goal of winning with the duty to get everyone in the game. The results are less than satisfying as a coach.

I have given you a problem, I will offer a solution: Let all 12 bat, have free substitution so that no kid sets for more than one inning, keep them in the ball game and off the bench. Why don't we do this now? Anyone care to touch this one? Another possible solution is to redraft every year to avoid team stacking. Since my team will be pretty well stacked next year this one hits close to home but I can't deny it would levelize the field and I would not oppose it for the good of the league and all the kids.

Third my question about attitude in ball players was not directed at ball players who become upset because they strike out, who sling their hat or bat in anger at themselves or sit in the dugout crying. It was not even directed at those who can not seem to shake off a bad play and who carry it on their shoulders for extended periods after the play is over. Read my post, I directed that question to a specific pattern of behavior. Verbally abusive and insulting comments directed to a teammate or anyone else for that matter. It's not the same thing. A child that becomes emotionally upset at himself and vents by physically lashing out with a bat or a helmet at the ground, crying, or sulking is understandable but not acceptable response. It is a pity party that coaches MUST ADDRESS IMMEDIATELY. You chew his rear out, if this doesn't work you refuse to start him in the next game or bench him till he comes around. After one or two episodes he gets the idea and the problem is solved. The player is stronger for this and the team benefits. This type of behavior is easily corrected but you don't wait till he is 12. Pity parties indicate the player is abosrbed with his own play and is not focused on his duty to his team. The appropriate response to a strike out is for a player to tell his teammates "sorry guys, I'll do better next time". (You may think I'm joking. I'm not). Its called being responsible for your actions and you teach it to them NOW. The team in turn should rally around the player and tell him not to worry about it, you'll get him next time. (This would be TEAM SUPPORT, i.e. we are all in this together. Remember as coaches IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT WINNING BALLGAMES. It is also about instilling good ethics, hard work, sportsmanship and competetion in our kids. If you do this as a coach you will not have to worry about winning ball games, the games will take care of themselves. In our practices we coach kids to say "I'm sorry" when they blow a play and "thank you" when another player pulls down a wild throw or helps them make the play. We coach our kids to be "responsible" and "courteous" and "team players". They don't usually come that way, you teach them.

Now does that mean they always do it, heavens no. Half the time they don't understand a thing I am saying to them. Do I have all the answers, not hardly. What I have are questions and concerns and ideas and I will readily confess I know less about baseball than Outlaw which probably explains why he has beaten me twice. Look out next time Randall, it isn't all about winning, but it does help.

Now fire away.

M.D. Ray
ps. I put my name at the bottom of my post because if I wasn't willing to stand behind what I say, I wouldn't say it at all. I understand not everyone feels that way.

You'll not receive any shots from me, because I agree with a lot of what you say.

I'll add this. Anybody 40 or over think about this. In all likelihood when you played summer ball, YOU PLAYED ALL SUMMER LONG. Now league play ends in the 1st or 2nd week in June. Why? To prepare for................................................TOURNEMENT PLAY. And for some kids, the feeling is (wrongly) "If you didn't make All-Star you're just not a good player." Some kids have this attitude and some parents have this attitude. I'm not debating about how All-Stars are chosen. When my kids played in Georgia, it was done all by stats. They had an official scorekeeper who kept the book for every game. When the tournament teams were chosen the book was the major factor. EVERYTHING was taken onto account. Errors, batting averages, RBIs. EVERYTHING. A problem here is you have no official book. Why? I wasn't at the games last week, but I've been told that in one game, the ump had no clicker, so he made several mistakes in ball/strike count. Like 3/4 kids got 4 strikes. There is a million dollar complex here and they can't afford a OFFICIAL time-keeper/ book-keeper? Or give the ump a clicker? But I digress.

I like your idea for younger ages. All 12 bat and let them play whenever. Won't happen, but it's good and makes sense. By redrafting, I assume you mean every coach starts out anew each year with only the coach(s) kids automatically on the team. Again, makes sense. Won't happen, but I LIKE it. It won't happen because most (not all) coaches want to WIN. Not treat kids fairly, or respectfully, or let them have fun. WIN. BTW I include you in the (not all) category. If I'm offending some other coach, well sorry.

"Remember as coaches IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT WINNING BALLGAMES." OHHHHHH! YOU BLASPHEME!!!!! Just joking. Your exactly correct. All youth charters talk about teaching good will, and ethics, and sportsmanship. Yet you hear of instances (not here) of fights, umpires being beaten, and shootings. If it were all about PLAYING the game rather than WINNING the game, kids, parents,and coaches would enjoy it much more. I'm not one of those tree-huggers who think having winners and losers in games is causing the downfall of American youth. Losing with dignity and respect DOES build character.

Respectfully, with love for the game

B. Ruth from somewhere in the hearts of America.

p.s. Don't be so hard on Barry. If steroids worked every MLB player would be hitting 50-60 out a year. He has a LITTLE more going for him.

[mom]

They do have an official book, and it is pretty accurate, and I was under the impression according to our coach it is the home teams responsibility to keep the official book, I know this because I have kept it on several occasions this year when we were the home team.

My opinion doesnt count here but I will say this when boys or girls get to be 12 years old they all are beginning to change in many ways, some attitude, some size, some looks you get the picture. Most of the kids have been playing all their lives and they understand the way things work by this age, good will, and ethics, and sportsmanship, are things that should be taught in the very beginning and if it is done properly it will stay with them for a lifetime.

I have seen some very stern coaches, and some very mild natured, and from both ways they played for the "LOVE OF THE GAME", anyway, I wonder what will come up next as BASEBALL is almost over?

[bruth]

When I refer to an "official book" I'm referring to a score-book kept by a paid official of the complex, not a team book-keeper. There is too much of a chance for "mistakes" when there is this situation. I've seen games where there is a discrepancy between the two books of the teams involved. Differences in runs scored, ball count, outs. There needs to be a impartial official scorekeeper and score-book for each field. I'm not trying to step on your toes, Mom. You may have done a great job, for all I know. I can't say that that's been the case in EVERY game. BTW in most cases the impartial scorekeeper is a game official just like an umpire.

[bruth]

My wife, who is total non-athlete suggests, that when All-Stars are picked, that there be a set amount off each team depending on the number of teams in each division. That way each kid is competing for All-Star status basically against your own teammates rather than everybody in the league. Since 12 is the number of All-Stars, then if there 6 teams in a division, you would pick 2 off each team.

[hogdog]

bruth said:

My wife, who is total non-athlete suggests, that when All-Stars are picked, that there be a set amount off each team depending on the number of teams in each division. That way each kid is competing for All-Star status basically against your own teammates rather than everybody in the league. Since 12 is the number of All-Stars, then if there 6 teams in a division, you would pick 2 off each team.

that won't work in a small town like crossett because the turn out for baseball has really gone down and there isn't the BIG number of kid's wanting to play baseball. Therefore there wouldn't be enough 2 pick 2 off each team...and I'm talking about true All- Stars

[mom]

Your not stepping on my toes. It doesnt bother me. I go and sit and watch kids play ball that is it.

[bruth]

hogdog said:

bruth said:

My wife, who is total non-athlete suggests, that when All-Stars are picked, that there be a set amount off each team depending on the number of teams in each division. That way each kid is competing for All-Star status basically against your own teammates rather than everybody in the league. Since 12 is the number of All-Stars, then if there 6 teams in a division, you would pick 2 off each team.

that won't work in a small town like crossett because the turn out for baseball has really gone down and there isn't the BIG number of kid's wanting to play baseball. Therefore there wouldn't be enough 2 pick 2 off each team...and I'm talking about true All- Stars

Good point.

[bruth]

justamom said:

Your not stepping on my toes. It doesnt bother me. I go and sit and watch kids play ball that is it.

Ok I didn't want to offend. Just making sure.

[Outlaw85]

Hogdog is right , it would be extremely hard to compete with a team like that. I know alot on here think it's just for fun and who cares. Well If a parent has to fork out $100 for an all star uniform you don't want to play 2 and go home. You want the best possible team on the field.

[ballfan]

The official book is the best Idea. Only those with personal agendas and something to hide would oppose picking a team on results. Also do the ump's have a vote ? They see all the teams every week...They I would think should have some input to help keep it objective.

We could field a better team with this objective data IMHO.

[hogdog]

tell me where the official book is MOM........... as I said....Crossett can't do this because of the turn out at try-outs

[Outlaw85]

ballfan said:

The official book is the best Idea. Only those with personal agendas and something to hide would oppose picking a team on results. Also do the ump's have a vote ? They see all the teams every week...They I would think should have some input to help keep it objective.

We could field a better team with this objective data IMHO.

Actually there is no "official" book. The book is kept each game by the home team. So the results of each game are scattered and no one keeps the book the same way. The only way the book, in my opinion, would be valid is if the league or city provided a pad score keeper for each game. That way the book would be done the same way each time and be fair to all. Right now, what someone else scores as a hit may not be one in my book. No consistancy for a book to be the sole source used in selecting.

Sometimes batting isn't everything. I like to look at a player as a whole. What kind of defensive player is he, can he pitch? You know Ozzie Smith had a lifetime batting average of around .262, but his glove was invaluable to St. Louis. Everyone here tends to forget that defense is as important as offense , maybe even more. It doesn't matter how well you hit if you can't play Defense. Exceptional defensive play alopng with good bats carried the 10's all the way to a 4th place finish in the regionals. there were games when the bats were not hot, but defensive play get them in the game until the bats came alive.

So until the league or city pops for official scorekeepers ,I won't be for using them as a big source of input in my all star selection. Don't get me wrong, I want to know if a kiods puts it into play or not but I will not trust averages.

[Outlaw85]

sportsfan said:

When did they stop keeping an official book? When we played at Tex Moore they were kept for 9&10's and 11&12's. I know this because I know the guy personally that kept them most of the time! lol Anyway, they kept the books in the concession stand. So..... they don't do that anymore?

When we were at Tex Moore and Maple there was an official book kept in trhe conscession stand. However ,for the 6 years I have been invloved the book has always generally been kept by the home team. I still wouldn't call that an "official" book because a different person kept the book each game. The league has has a paid scorekeeper a few times but not for all leagues. Maple had one 2 or 3 years ago but only because of controversy. I personally think the city or league should hire one. But since we moved to the complex we have been told the city will not pay for one. And the league isn't either. Perhaps there are afew people out there willing to volunteer thier time to keep score for these kids.