FINAL Standings (6-8-06)

[bruth]

outlaw67 said:

sportsfan said:

When did they stop keeping an official book? When we played at Tex Moore they were kept for 9&10's and 11&12's. I know this because I know the guy personally that kept them most of the time! lol Anyway, they kept the books in the concession stand. So..... they don't do that anymore?

When we were at Tex Moore and Maple there was an official book kept in trhe conscession stand. However ,for the 6 years I have been invloved the book has always generally been kept by the home team. I still wouldn't call that an "official" book because a different person kept the book each game. The league has has a paid scorekeeper a few times but not for all leagues. Maple had one 2 or 3 years ago but only because of controversy. I personally think the city or league should hire one. But since we moved to the complex we have been told the city will not pay for one. And the league isn't either. Perhaps there are afew people out there willing to volunteer thier time to keep score for these kids.

So the city is too cheap to pay $20 a night for the boys games and maybe $15 a night for the girls games( that's figuring 2 games a night for the boys on 2 fields and 3 for the girls at $5 a game) for a total of $35 a night? The concession stand would pay for that easy every night of play. Even if you up the price to $10 a game you're only talking about $70. Wow. That's going to break the city (sarcasm).

[softball fan]

Softball has offical score keepers. They keep the book and the scoreboard. I figure the softball league is paying for that. At the baseball fields, the home team keeps the offical book. The visiting team keeps the scoreboard. I have kept the home team book and I wouldn't want what I am keeping for my son's team to be used to decide who would make all-stars. As a parent, I do get into the game and everything might not be exact. If all-stars are chosen by stats, the offical book should be kept by someone without a child on the team. Softball has offical and they don't chose all-stars.

[mom]

Well, I didnt mean to upset HOGDOG, but when we are home team the umps will come over and ask ok who has the "official book", so i guess with the coach and the umps calling it an official book, I guess that is where I got it, and where do they keep it I dont know, but last year I had to go to the concession stand a time or two to get it, so I dont know.

[ballfan]

Another kind of off the wall Idea would be for the league to pick 2 Teams when there are enough players willing and capable.. The 7-8' league last year had the talent for 2 teams but then several selected for the second tournament team were not available due to family commitments. They still had a team; however, about 1/2 were 7 year olds, but several of the 8's on that team were equal in ability to many on the All-star team...They did not have success in terms of wins, but the players all had fun and are better players for the experience. This helps the league giving all these kids that are really interested in playing after regular season another few weeks and a chance to experience the tournaments... Some may feel having another team takes away from the prestige of being a ALL-Star... I have to really Roll my eyes to those that think like that... It's for the kids !! Another thing is this tournament team played the all-star team in practice and did pretty well and for sure helped prepare them for the real games .. It was nothing but good for everyone so why can't the league have more than one team officially ? I think it would help keep kids in the game as well for years to come and boost numbers in later years . JMHO

[Outlaw85]

Babe Ruth rules state that for a league to have 2 all star teams they must have at least 8 teams in the league and be spilt into 2 divisions. We will never have that many kids playing here. You can do that with 7 and 8's because their state tournament is an invitational. anyone can comeas long as you got the money. 9 and up is a different.

[ballfan]

I watched the 9-10 year old Tiger vs Rays game and while both teams had errors at nearly every position it was a pretty even game, both made some good plays and blew plays equally and Batting was spotty IMO. The Rays used bunts pretty effectively to move runners I thought ( good coaching MR ) The tigers made several errant throws and missed some catches, but they also made some really good plays from the short stop position and Pitcher / back catcher had a nice pick off at second. Their centerfielder did a good job backing up 2nd where several balls were missed ... Their third baseman made some nice catches in traffic that could have been runs if missed and almost made a great tag, but missed a pop-up in traffic that somehow ended up in a double play ... Over all the tigers played just well enough to win, but it showed the two teams very evenly matched IMO. I guess this gives the Tigers a stronger hold on second but it's not over till it's over. Good game as predicted close to the end.

[Outlaw85]

Could someone please tell me who won the Rangers - Braves game, so I can update the standings.

Thank You

[bruth]

Rangers

[mdr]

Tigers v. Rays was a nail biter ending 7/8 in the 5th with the Tigers on top. My congratulations to Gary and David. I wish I could say the game was well played but the truth is there were numerous errors on the field by both sides that were costly. The Tigers pitching was to strong and we had to go to our short game and base running to stay in it. Our pitching was not what it should have been and my starting catcher had a knee injury so I had to make a change that weakend the infield defense but allowed us to control the runners. The catchers for both teams did well behind the plate.

The Tigers now have the stronger position for 2nd but like the man said it ain't over till its over.

I realize there is a lot of controversy over the books. I would like to see an official scorekeeper that kept the records because I think those stat's should be used to select your all stars at the end of the season. Until that happens one mans error is another man's base hit. The best I can figure out now is to simply say that if the kid hits the ball and gets on base call it a base hit and move on. Then the discrepancy over how scorekeepers register hit v. error does not exist. Even if we all have differant books, every child is judged on the same standard. It is my understanding from the conversations I have had with the coaches and managers that most of those in the 9/10 yr. old division have adopted this method. If you hit the ball and get on base it counts. I realize this is not ideal, but we are going to have to use what we have, we can't go back and play the season over. I would like to see an offical scorekeeper but until we get one we are going to have to make do.

Again Randall and I are going to have to agree to disagree on offense v. defense. My opinion is that at this age level most ball games are won and lost in the 48 feet between the pitcher and the catcher. This is your defense. Now I like good infield and outfield defense too and I practice it regularly but I don't expect it to win my ballgames. If my pitcher can dominate the other teams batters I can win games. Case in point, the Yankees and the Tigers. When their pitching is on they are hard to beat as both the Red Sox and Rays have learned to our sorrow. When it isn't they struggle just as my own team struggles when our pitching isn't on. As far as I am concerned, if I can't out pitch them, I have to out hit them. Most of the better hitters in this league can play defense, so I build around that. At the allstar level there is no way I would play a great glove on my infield that was hitting .300 when I could put a good glove on my field that was hitting over .500.

Of course Randall has won more games that I have this year, so at some point you have to ask yourself if maybe I am missing something?

mdr

[Outlaw85]

Dominate pitching will win you alot of games in league play, however when you advance to post season play you had better have a "complete " defense or you are in trouble. You will be facing teams with as good or better pitching as you have. A popup to the outfields most likely will fall in league play. Don't count on it in All stars play.

[mdr]

I can not disagree with that analysis.

Oh and by the way BRUTH:

Thank you for taking the time to mention that pop up last night by the Rays' to the Tigers at 3rd base that "somehow turned into a double play". I was rather hoping someone would comment on it. The SOMEHOW can be explained. The 3rd base coach did not hear the umpire call "infield fly". Now the 3rd base coach isn't stupid, he knew that it was an "infield fly" but being an untrusting sort he wasn't sure the umpire knew it so when the ball got dropped he called the runner on 2nd to advance which he attempted to do. The 10 yr. old then figured out for himself and with no help from the 40 yr. old coach that advancing to 3rd was clearly a bad idea and the 10 yr old turned around and went back. (Smart kid and well coached). Which is fine he made it, BUT the 1st base runner having seen the 2nd base runner take off followed suit and my 1st base coach who was totally appalled at what the 3rd base coach was doing had lost track of his runner and upon seeing him scurrying half way to second found himself unable to yell loudly enough to get his 9yr old who was intent on advancing to stop.

All of which is basicly to establish my defense since I was the 3rd base coach. Thank you for being so tactful in your commentary, but as you can clearly see I am not stupid I knew the infield fly rule was in effect, but because I had my head shoved up my bacside I was unable to draw the proper mental conclusion that my runner should STAY and not GO.

mdr
p.s. if you notice any other similarly catastrophic mistakes made by the 3rd base coach of the Rays please feel free to PM me.

[bruth]

Thanks, but ballfan made that observation, not me.

[bruth]

Since, as you say, "one man's error is another man's base hit", simply go by on-base percentages. That way getting on base with a hit, error, walk, hit batsman all count the same. Kids with a .300 batting ave. may have a .600 on base % because they hit the ball hard or are very patient and get lots of walks. Both are good things.

[Outlaw85]

bruth said:

Since, as you say, "one man's error is another man's base hit", simply go by on-base percentages. That way getting on base with a hit, error, walk, hit batsman all count the same. Kids with a .300 batting ave. may have a .600 on base % because they hit the ball hard or are very patient and get lots of walks. Both are good things.

Very valid point.

[hogdog]

The Yankee's and The Red Sox played a good game last night. Birthday BOY Alex Taylor pitched a good game along with Josh Outlaw...Red Sox won the game 10 to 2...

[mdr]

I stand corrected, again. It was BALLFAN who called my ineptitude last night to the attention of the public and I do apologize for my faux pas today where you are concerned BRUTH.

By means of amends, I will venture to agree with Randall and you that on base percentages are important. Bat/Avg. can be misleading. A fielders choice and or error is definately not a base hit and should not be considered the same IF you have the means for all the coaches to unilaterally distinguish between an error and a hit. For that matter a Fielders choice is not as good as a walk for the team as a whole even if the batter might disagree with you. Since we don't have an official book kept by an outside party when we reach the draft it is my understanding that the coaches will produce not only their BA but their on base % as well.

mdr

[ballfan]

Sorry....
I think everyone was confused at that time.

[Outlaw85]

The final games of the season are upon us. Seems like only yesterday we started. All Star preparation begins next week. It's been a very good and competitive season. Even though the season ends for most, it is just getting primed for a few. Remember to support our local All Stars.

[hogdog]

What teams and times for Thursday's games?

[mzsmartypantz]

Yankees v. Tigers at 5:30

Devil Rays v. Red Sox at 7:00

Braves v. Rangers at 7:30